THE SMA FORUM ARCHIVE
Posted by Neil L (Guest), on 2001-03-17 12:19:00
NOTE: the following messages have been transferred from the original SMA.com Message Board
User ID: 2087514 Nov 19th 5:09 PM
Hi! Does anyone out there know what type of glass you would use for glass painting and also how many layers of glass are best to "create" depth? Is it best to back light or over head light? What paint would be best? I'm trying to do a Dinosaur Diorama and wanted to photograph it with as much dimensional illusion as possible.Thanks!
User ID: 2136174 Nov 20th 7:52 AM
I've used any glass I can get my hands on in the past.I always get a frame made for it,and just take adequate precautions to tell other people there is glass,also I rope off the area I'm working in with striped tape,the kind they use to rope off crime scenes.But now I try to get toughened glass.Oil paints are the best because when the dry they don't change colour,acrylics can do this.I normally block out the bulk off the painting with a primer.As for multi-layers,I tend to incorporate miniatures into my mult-layered set up's,I find lighting is just trial and error for me,especially when combining miniature elements.Like most things in animation/model making etc... it is trial and error,You just see what works and what doesn't,there's no set rules.
User ID: 2087514 Nov 20th 3:22 PM
Thanks hoojib! The information you've given me really is appreciated. I've had afew more ideas since my previous post. One is to somehow create fog..I think Ray Harryhausen achieved this in one of his films but how...??? Using glass painting might pose a problem if I used an actual mist machine.I've been thinking of shooting through a fine cloth or maybe applying vaseline to a lens cell or something of that nature. By the way I'd also like to thank everyone posting on these boards...the information is very appreciated and as I'm new here I'b just like to say that I enjoy coming to this site and reading all the posts! Great stuff!
User ID: 8562343 Nov 20th 4:22 PM
I've read of several ways to replicate fog on miniature sets without using smoke. One way, and this is especially useful when utilizing sets that have a good deal of depth to them, especially multiplaned glass paintings, is to use SCRIMS. Which is a very fine screen-like material that comes in a frame. White scrims, used at a distance, give the impression that the objects they are in front of are further away by imitating atmospheric haze, or even fog. This is also used in live action photography. Another way I read that Willis O'Brien got a fog effect was to use a very light dusting of talcum powder on glass. Several frames can be used to also give depth. The glass can be moved inbetween exposures to give the impression of "rolling" fog. Care must be taken and the talc must be dusted on very finely, not clumpy. Also care must be taken when positioning the glass in front of the lens. You have to have the right distance to sell the illusion. Too close or too far can give away the trick. Good luck.
User ID: 0512724 Nov 20th 4:47 PM
If anyone wants to see an example of
using scrims to create fog, look at Sally's
sad song in "Nightmare before Christmas".
Any of the angles looking back through
the gate as Sally moves between the bars
were done this way. These are my
(with much credit to Trey Thomas for his
wonderful animation). The fog shots
in the earlier part of the sequence
were mostly DX effects, but all done
User ID: 2087514 Nov 21st 0:37 AM
Leon! Thanks for the info...I especially like the Willis O'brien method as it is cheap to do and the rolling fog idea is very inspiring!
Neil and Jim
User ID: 8562343 Nov 21st 8:38 PM
Thanks for the info Jim, that is my favorite shot on the whole movie. Neil, please post your results ...shoot some tests with the talc on glass technique. I'm sure others out there would love to hear results
User ID: 8562343 Nov 22nd 4:46 PM
Hey, that's weird. The above post is by me, but Niel and Jim came up. Must be a glitch! Happy Thanksgiving!
User ID: 2087514 Nov 27th 10:29 PM
Yes I will! I want to post my T-rex armature as well but we are only halfway there as yet! Happy Thanksgiving to you! I'm sure to have more questions as I move along!
User ID: 2087514 Dec 28th 2:38 AM
Well it's Dec 27th! Finished the tail section and Sacral of the T-Rex! Whew what an expensive project and only halfway there. Too bad I found out about this site AFTER I started to build the Armature.
Posted by apples50000, on 2001-07-17 20:35:46
i recently met someone who does a slide show with music preformances... they used glass paint to make there own slides and the colors were amazing! any good art supply store should have paint or try a church supply store they use to make stainedglass windows.
Posted by opticalguy, on 2002-06-04 14:32:11
Well this is second hand info (it's originally from Jim Danforth) but it may be useful. In a perfect world where money was no object you would get optically flat, colorless (I forget the term but the edges lack the usual green tinge that most window glass has) and you would build a perfect frame for it. Back in the real world you could try this route. Jim just picked up glass from the hardware store that was already in an aluminum frame (replacement windows) since it was pretty easy to handle and the framing (a rubber seal surrounded by aluminum) made it all pretty sturdy. Naturally examine it to make sure that there are no major flaws.
To prep the glass for painting with standard acrylic paints (or oil paints if you are really a traditionalist or just more comfortable with the medium) he would stipple the glass with a disposable sponge using a standard, water-based, matte finish house paint. Naturally little paint would adhere the first several coats but it would build up and the surface would be a bit like a high quality, smooth watercolor paper. There are faster ways but Jim was wisely avoiding nasty solvents and since he has out lived others in the business (think Laine Liska and David Allen) he's been proven right.
When using the painting be aware that window glass is green and anywhere between a 5 or a 10 magenta color correcting filter may be needed to compensate. Also try using Rosco "minus green" gels. Avoid the Fuji film stocks since they tend to have too much detail in the shadows and they make matte paintings look bad. In digital make sure the blacks in the painting approach clipping on the bottom end for black and actually go for slight clipping on the white paint highlights.